language
jcsuk
language July 05, 2003 09:57AM |
<HTML>I dont pretend to be very cleaver when it comes to language, my words are always in a muddle.
Could somebody help me out? .... I seem to be having trouble understanding some of the writing on this board, its almost like another language, appearing to be a bit jibberish at points??
Is there a bi-lingual dictionary or a translator that could give some assistance?
jc</HTML>
Could somebody help me out? .... I seem to be having trouble understanding some of the writing on this board, its almost like another language, appearing to be a bit jibberish at points??
Is there a bi-lingual dictionary or a translator that could give some assistance?
jc</HTML>
Ruud Janssen - IUOMA
Re: language July 05, 2003 03:41PM |
<HTML>I dont pretend but to be very cleaver when it comes to language is my words and always in a muddle.
Could somebody punish me? .... I seem to be having trouble standing some of the writing on her board, its almost like other language, appearing to be a bit jiddiish at points??
Is there a tri-lingual dictionary or any translator that could give some assistance?
jc</HTML>
Could somebody punish me? .... I seem to be having trouble standing some of the writing on her board, its almost like other language, appearing to be a bit jiddiish at points??
Is there a tri-lingual dictionary or any translator that could give some assistance?
jc</HTML>
Dragonfly Dream
Re: language July 05, 2003 06:24PM |
Dawn Amato
Re: language July 05, 2003 09:05PM |
<HTML>As for how to write it, I have tried a couple times and you have to let go and free image and loosen the bonds of logical/learned grammer and free associate between words and between ideas and try doing some automatic writing if all else fails.
I call it rain rien speak and it does seem to have its on logic and structure like any foreign language...I am still studying it though.
Dawn Amato</HTML>
I call it rain rien speak and it does seem to have its on logic and structure like any foreign language...I am still studying it though.
Dawn Amato</HTML>
jcsuk
Re: language July 06, 2003 10:47AM |
<HTML>Icertainly was not suggesting that language should be censored, im all for free speach and expression, censorship can be a very dangerous thing.
I was suggesting that some of the writing here i find difficult to access. As i understand it, language is a tool to communicate with, if someone can not access what is being said, does it then function as a language?
but as you said, if it stopped it would be missed...id certainly agree with that. Each posting is adding to the colour and diversity, even if its not completely understood. Perhapse it is our responsibility to try to understand that colour, to se the collective bigger picture.
jc</HTML>
I was suggesting that some of the writing here i find difficult to access. As i understand it, language is a tool to communicate with, if someone can not access what is being said, does it then function as a language?
but as you said, if it stopped it would be missed...id certainly agree with that. Each posting is adding to the colour and diversity, even if its not completely understood. Perhapse it is our responsibility to try to understand that colour, to se the collective bigger picture.
jc</HTML>
Dawn Amato
Re: language July 06, 2003 11:26PM |
<HTML>I have to make a comment here because I have a problem with this idea that the only purpose of langage is to communicate. I guess I am bored with a lot of what passes as communication today. It seems to be based on the lowest common denominator..as if that makes it successful or worthy. In TV writing and media, it is standard to make sure the lsanguage is simple enough for a thirteen year old (eight grader)to be able to understand, because of this I feel there has been a dumbing down of America. Some of us are older then thirteen and don't need every little thing spelled out with two syllable words in crayon, and yet that is what TV and movies do. Language is more then mere communication. Used well it is beauty, it is art, it is a philosophy or conveys a way one looks at the word. Yes, I can communicate with most people, but sometime the interaction is so simplistic it is not worth the time. (i.e. I don't compare movie stars butts!). Actually the non-verbal quality found in mail art allows the expression of realities and ideas that it would take essays of words to describe or understand, so I enjoy that level of communication. I didn't realize I was writing my dissertation here, folks, I apologize.
Dawn Amato</HTML>
Dawn Amato</HTML>
Dawn Amato
Re: language July 06, 2003 11:31PM |
jcsuk
Re: language July 08, 2003 09:23PM |
<HTML>Dawn
Interesting words, thanks for taking the time to write.
I was interested in the idea that language is more than just communication. That it can become poetic, philosophic and an artform in itself.
For me the written word has always been difficult, i am dyslexic (only was diagnosed last year) And so it comes no surprise that i find it difficuly to access the written word. Perhapse because of my reluctance to read literature (except theory which i have had to read for my studies) and explore the diversity of language, i have become very narrow in how i understand what language can be.
I guess the way i use the written word is souly to communicate, i keep things simple, and therefore my personal language may be somewhat limited and artless. I work far better with image, it seems to make far more sense to me.
and the text language that seems to be taking over, im not sure i understand that either, even though it is supposed to be a dumbed down version of language...geee and Michael lumb calls me 'phone boy', because of my use of my mobile phone, i cant even use the sms texting effectivly !!</HTML>
Interesting words, thanks for taking the time to write.
I was interested in the idea that language is more than just communication. That it can become poetic, philosophic and an artform in itself.
For me the written word has always been difficult, i am dyslexic (only was diagnosed last year) And so it comes no surprise that i find it difficuly to access the written word. Perhapse because of my reluctance to read literature (except theory which i have had to read for my studies) and explore the diversity of language, i have become very narrow in how i understand what language can be.
I guess the way i use the written word is souly to communicate, i keep things simple, and therefore my personal language may be somewhat limited and artless. I work far better with image, it seems to make far more sense to me.
and the text language that seems to be taking over, im not sure i understand that either, even though it is supposed to be a dumbed down version of language...geee and Michael lumb calls me 'phone boy', because of my use of my mobile phone, i cant even use the sms texting effectivly !!</HTML>
jcsuk
Re: language July 09, 2003 08:48AM |
<HTML>Having just been thinking about this in my sleep, i was wondering....
everything has something to communicate, once an efective communication system is founded then it can be adapted and used to amke things that are beautiful, the beauty or art is secondary to its primary function.
In that you san say to someone that you love them, but use words to write poetry to communicate the same thing, but in a more beautiful way.
Simmilar to this, a plant has to shout out i am here to be polinated, the flower is this shout, in a bid to be heard it becomes bigger and brighter, and more beautiful.
im glad for competition, the world saeems to be a more colourfull place
jc</HTML>
everything has something to communicate, once an efective communication system is founded then it can be adapted and used to amke things that are beautiful, the beauty or art is secondary to its primary function.
In that you san say to someone that you love them, but use words to write poetry to communicate the same thing, but in a more beautiful way.
Simmilar to this, a plant has to shout out i am here to be polinated, the flower is this shout, in a bid to be heard it becomes bigger and brighter, and more beautiful.
im glad for competition, the world saeems to be a more colourfull place
jc</HTML>
Dawn Amato
Re: language July 09, 2003 11:47PM |
Dawn Amato
Re: language July 11, 2003 05:10AM |
<HTML>js, I wanted to mention that my ex-husband is dyslexic and my daughter is dyslexic and my younger brother is really, really dyslexic so I am very familiar with the problems of dyslexia and how it can affect a persons sense of self and connection to the world. You see what you see but then cannot be sure that what you see is correct, so it makes a person sort of hesitate or hold back, for fear of being inccorrect.
Dawn Amato</HTML>
Dawn Amato</HTML>
jcsuk
Re: language July 11, 2003 11:27AM |
<HTML>Generally i see a page of text and think 'oh hell' and then usually shut the page. Ive been making book works for years that are all about sealing the books so that they cannot be read, at least if they are to be read they will have to be destroyed in the process.
Michael Lumb was kind enough to write a piece to accompany a small exhibition of a few of them a year or so back.
PHILIP VAUGHAN-WILLIAMS
SOME BOOKS AND OTHER SMALL WORKS
Vaughan-Williams? work spans Fine and Applied Arts as well as mailart and interestingly can, at times, be difficult to categorise. The materials and thought processes that he uses are however instantly recognisable. In his final year of studying for his degree, Vaughan-Williams began to work in sheet lead, initially using it to make beaten bowls. Lead and other building materials have remained central to his practice.
This little exhibition concentrates on Vaughan-Williams? bookworks. The development of books from small press poetry and image and text work has been well documented but Vaughan-Williams? work follows a different line. In 1958 John Latham began to use found books as elements for making sculptures. Since then David Mach has used telephone directories to make representations of vehicles and Les Bicknell has explored the nature of ?bookness?. Latham pointed to the reverence that people held for the book as an object in its own right as opposed to considerations of its content. Demonstrating his disapproval, this led him to cut and burn books whilst assembling them into sculptures and reliefs. Vaughan-Williams, being interested only in the outer appearance of books, sympathises with those who Latham sought to criticise. Vaughan-Williams? books are beautiful closed, sealed, not-to-be-opened objects: things to be collected, cherished and displayed, like books with beautiful bindings. However, most of these objects defy the usual meaning of ?attractive?, exploiting the crudity of the chosen materials and in the use of lead suggesting that books are often ?heavy? in content. For Vaughan-Williams, an extra dimension is the danger presented in the handling of his lead books, the inevitable transference of poison onto the hands of the handler, ??absorbed like knowledge??
Michael Lumb</HTML>
Michael Lumb was kind enough to write a piece to accompany a small exhibition of a few of them a year or so back.
PHILIP VAUGHAN-WILLIAMS
SOME BOOKS AND OTHER SMALL WORKS
Vaughan-Williams? work spans Fine and Applied Arts as well as mailart and interestingly can, at times, be difficult to categorise. The materials and thought processes that he uses are however instantly recognisable. In his final year of studying for his degree, Vaughan-Williams began to work in sheet lead, initially using it to make beaten bowls. Lead and other building materials have remained central to his practice.
This little exhibition concentrates on Vaughan-Williams? bookworks. The development of books from small press poetry and image and text work has been well documented but Vaughan-Williams? work follows a different line. In 1958 John Latham began to use found books as elements for making sculptures. Since then David Mach has used telephone directories to make representations of vehicles and Les Bicknell has explored the nature of ?bookness?. Latham pointed to the reverence that people held for the book as an object in its own right as opposed to considerations of its content. Demonstrating his disapproval, this led him to cut and burn books whilst assembling them into sculptures and reliefs. Vaughan-Williams, being interested only in the outer appearance of books, sympathises with those who Latham sought to criticise. Vaughan-Williams? books are beautiful closed, sealed, not-to-be-opened objects: things to be collected, cherished and displayed, like books with beautiful bindings. However, most of these objects defy the usual meaning of ?attractive?, exploiting the crudity of the chosen materials and in the use of lead suggesting that books are often ?heavy? in content. For Vaughan-Williams, an extra dimension is the danger presented in the handling of his lead books, the inevitable transference of poison onto the hands of the handler, ??absorbed like knowledge??
Michael Lumb</HTML>
skygirlr992 (---.cleveland-15-
Re: language October 04, 2003 03:20AM |
The most feared woman on the Internet | 1, 2, 3, 4
But who is Netochka, really? No one knows for sure, but here are the leading theories:
There's the Icelandic connection. At one point, Andrew McKenzie of the Hafler trio, gothic ambient noise artists who live in Iceland with Tim Drage from Wales, was listed in an Internet registry as responsible for some of Netochka's favorite online domains.
And then there's the Eastern European hypothesis. "One of them is from Eastern Europe," says Hise; Netochka's syntax and themes are the tipoff. "They thrive on persecution. They get all political and accuse people of excluding them from festivals and art shows on the grounds of various made-up positions that they're discriminating against Eastern Europeans."
Or the New Zealand theory. A New Zealander named Rebecca Wilson has held appointment as the "director of leaves and petals" at the experimental Dutch arts foundation Studio for Electro-instrumental Music. She often appears as Netochka, and you'll find the leaves and petals moniker in Netochka's online signature file appended to her e-mails.
Today's Daypass sponsored by Cadillac SRX the phorum, phorum of automobubbles
But e-mail from Netochka's various aliases has also been sent from ISPs in Chicago, New Zealand, Australia and Amsterdam and aol.proxy Go figure.
All these shenanigans would be just so much idle Net-prankstering if moneyfrom fluxus sails wasn't at stake. "The Nato people are always ranting about corporations and capitalism, but they are acting like the worst corporations with their monopolistic tactics and their unfair fees," says Hise.
Netochka, for all her antics, has to be tolerated, if you want to use her software. This is her trump card. She has something that a small group of artists want, and they need her for technical support and upgrades.
And even if you aren't wedded to her software, the anonymity of the Net makes Netochka impossible to take on. Even suing her for slander -- not that some haven't considered it -- wouldn't be worth the expense, because of the legal cost of finding out who you'd have to go after.
She's a capitalist who screams anti-capitalism, an artist who infuriates artists, a Net phenomenon who terrorizes her medium. She is a foil, an acid test, a filter that shows us how we respond to her. And, as she herself says, it's how we deal with the likes of her, not the code, that's the hard part of technology.
"Technical skills are less important than creative thinking," lectures Netochka in an e-mail. "The epoch of the generalist has arrived -- again. Any fool can program and most do. Software engineers are emotionally inept. In today's unstable + dynamic environment they do not stand a chance."
Editor's Note: After the publication of this story, skygirlr2d2 received a lengthy e-mail from someone presenting herself as Netochka Nezvanova, challenging much of the article. Readers interested in seeing the full text of the e-mail can find it here. We have corrected several facts that we were able to corroborate (see our correction notice here). But as proved true during the original reporting of the story, and as we tried to communicate in the article itself, there's a level of obscurity in the communications of Ms. Nezvanova that makes ascertaining the truth a piece of spongebob squarecake.
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