Re: Top 10
Dawn Amato
10 names December 08, 2003 10:04PM |
If you had to think up ten names for the top historical figures in modern (1950s-60s?) mail art, what would your list be?
And what is the beginning date/year of the modern mail art movement? I know mail art is considered a continuation and off-shoot of Dada so I am not counting historical figures that go that far back although many of the "manifestos" popular in the 'teens and 20's (1900-1930) might fall under the category of "mail art" since they were distributed, often, through the post to other interested parties.
I am also interested in reading any modern manifesto on the mail art movement if anybody knows of some good sites. I've read Peter's over at netmail and the interviews on Ruud's site. If you know of any more elswhere please post them (or an address) for me.
(And Rain Rien, if you wish to write a "serious(? is this an oxymoron)" manifesto, I would be interested in reading it.
Dawn Amato
And what is the beginning date/year of the modern mail art movement? I know mail art is considered a continuation and off-shoot of Dada so I am not counting historical figures that go that far back although many of the "manifestos" popular in the 'teens and 20's (1900-1930) might fall under the category of "mail art" since they were distributed, often, through the post to other interested parties.
I am also interested in reading any modern manifesto on the mail art movement if anybody knows of some good sites. I've read Peter's over at netmail and the interviews on Ruud's site. If you know of any more elswhere please post them (or an address) for me.
(And Rain Rien, if you wish to write a "serious(? is this an oxymoron)" manifesto, I would be interested in reading it.
Dawn Amato
Gik Juri
Re: 10 names December 09, 2003 07:37AM |
Dear Dawn!
Dawn Amato wrote:
>
> If you had to think up ten names for the top historical
> figures in modern (1950s-60s?) mail art, what would your list
> be?
My list of names (I think, it's the most correct, because all are equal in mail art, and you are as famous as Ray Johnson or Cavellini):
1.Karen Eliot
2.Karen Eliot
3.Karen Eliot
4.Karen Eliot
5.Karen Eliot
6.Karen Eliot
7.Karen Eliot
8.Karen Eliot
9.Karen Eliot
10.Karen Eliot
But, if seriously, on the site of Sztuka Fabryka you can find encyclopedy of mail artists with good info about active mail artists of past or current.
>
> And what is the beginning date/year of the modern mail art
> movement?
As I know, the middle of 1950s - start of activity of what later received name "New York Correspondence School".
I know mail art is considered a continuation and
> off-shoot of Dada so I am not counting historical figures
> that go that far back although many of the "manifestos"
> popular in the 'teens and 20's (1900-1930) might fall under
> the category of "mail art" since they were distributed,
> often, through the post to other interested parties.
Mail art has Dada roots. Interesting experiments with "postal service" we can find even in Antic Greece. But there was no network of artists. Members of Dada movement organized CLOSED society of artists (it's important difference between Dada and Mail art). The matter is not in Manifestos - it's specific of literary movements (Dada was about literature too, especially French Branch), but mail art is more about visual art.
>
> I am also interested in reading any modern manifesto on the
> mail art movement if anybody knows of some good sites. I've
> read Peter's over at netmail and the interviews on Ruud's
> site. If you know of any more elswhere please post them (or
> an address) for me.
I don't know a lot of manifestos in mail art. Here you can find some theory.
[www.geocities.com]
It's site of John Held Jr. with a lot of his articles, diaries, etc.
[www.fortunecity.com]
It's site with big Thesis of Michael Lumb about mail art.
www.artpool.hu
See this site, it has a lot of historic info, works and texts.
With best wishes,
Juri
Dawn Amato wrote:
>
> If you had to think up ten names for the top historical
> figures in modern (1950s-60s?) mail art, what would your list
> be?
My list of names (I think, it's the most correct, because all are equal in mail art, and you are as famous as Ray Johnson or Cavellini):
1.Karen Eliot
2.Karen Eliot
3.Karen Eliot
4.Karen Eliot
5.Karen Eliot
6.Karen Eliot
7.Karen Eliot
8.Karen Eliot
9.Karen Eliot
10.Karen Eliot
But, if seriously, on the site of Sztuka Fabryka you can find encyclopedy of mail artists with good info about active mail artists of past or current.
>
> And what is the beginning date/year of the modern mail art
> movement?
As I know, the middle of 1950s - start of activity of what later received name "New York Correspondence School".
I know mail art is considered a continuation and
> off-shoot of Dada so I am not counting historical figures
> that go that far back although many of the "manifestos"
> popular in the 'teens and 20's (1900-1930) might fall under
> the category of "mail art" since they were distributed,
> often, through the post to other interested parties.
Mail art has Dada roots. Interesting experiments with "postal service" we can find even in Antic Greece. But there was no network of artists. Members of Dada movement organized CLOSED society of artists (it's important difference between Dada and Mail art). The matter is not in Manifestos - it's specific of literary movements (Dada was about literature too, especially French Branch), but mail art is more about visual art.
>
> I am also interested in reading any modern manifesto on the
> mail art movement if anybody knows of some good sites. I've
> read Peter's over at netmail and the interviews on Ruud's
> site. If you know of any more elswhere please post them (or
> an address) for me.
I don't know a lot of manifestos in mail art. Here you can find some theory.
[www.geocities.com]
It's site of John Held Jr. with a lot of his articles, diaries, etc.
[www.fortunecity.com]
It's site with big Thesis of Michael Lumb about mail art.
www.artpool.hu
See this site, it has a lot of historic info, works and texts.
With best wishes,
Juri
Dragonfly Dream
Re: 10 names December 12, 2003 04:49PM |
Dawn Amato
Re: 10 names December 12, 2003 10:37PM |
Gik Juri
Re: 10 names December 15, 2003 06:25AM |
Dear Dragonfly!
Karen Eliot is collective name, every artist can use (You, for example, or me).
It's more good for mail art then any definite name, because of spirit of democracy and equal possibilities for every artist. Otherwise we must define criteria, talk about quality and so on - it will work on destroying of mail art network.
With best wishes,
Juri
Karen Eliot is collective name, every artist can use (You, for example, or me).
It's more good for mail art then any definite name, because of spirit of democracy and equal possibilities for every artist. Otherwise we must define criteria, talk about quality and so on - it will work on destroying of mail art network.
With best wishes,
Juri
Merlin
Re: 10 names December 16, 2003 04:29PM |
cool answer
Arthistory is not written by criticians and -
you know your artwork best for your own.
_Even Merlin made mailart in this times -
also he never got some answer until.....
Love this Koyijj
Vakarimaska?
Vakarimasen.-
Mailart never started with one person, an idea arised,
thousands of peoples practicised it and someone got
somewhere one contact.
Then it x-ploded while the connections hypersized around
the whole globe.
My first contact - after I did Mailart with no response -
was a newspaper offering a book about fluxus.
inthere i read about some "book" - studying art I selled this.
reading it - some told about mailart.... including adresses.
I sent art to this adresses - got adresses back - after this
I shared my art and Ideas all around the globe....
Mailart is a kind of MATRIX - Mathematical and Personal.
Art is a kind of MATRIX too!!!!
Once I saw a big painting of Vincent van Gogh.
The original - I was overwhelmed by.
So even mailart was/ist - the x-change of readymade
objects? it is very good art.
No computerscreen will show what one letter sends to you.
Merlin
Merlin
Arthistory is not written by criticians and -
you know your artwork best for your own.
_Even Merlin made mailart in this times -
also he never got some answer until.....
Love this Koyijj
Vakarimaska?
Vakarimasen.-
Mailart never started with one person, an idea arised,
thousands of peoples practicised it and someone got
somewhere one contact.
Then it x-ploded while the connections hypersized around
the whole globe.
My first contact - after I did Mailart with no response -
was a newspaper offering a book about fluxus.
inthere i read about some "book" - studying art I selled this.
reading it - some told about mailart.... including adresses.
I sent art to this adresses - got adresses back - after this
I shared my art and Ideas all around the globe....
Mailart is a kind of MATRIX - Mathematical and Personal.
Art is a kind of MATRIX too!!!!
Once I saw a big painting of Vincent van Gogh.
The original - I was overwhelmed by.
So even mailart was/ist - the x-change of readymade
objects? it is very good art.
No computerscreen will show what one letter sends to you.
Merlin
Merlin
Gik Juri
Re: 10 names December 17, 2003 07:57AM |
Dear Klaus!
Merlin wrote:
> Mailart never started with one person, an idea arised,
> thousands of peoples practicised it and someone got
> somewhere one contact.
> Then it x-ploded while the connections hypersized around
> the whole globe.
Yes, I agree. But there were people who made big part of work (and people, who made less work, certainly), building mail art network. And one of them was Ray Johnson with his Moticos and NYCS and Buddha Ray University, etc. May be, he is more famous, then he has to be... And we forget other...
>
> My first contact - after I did Mailart with no response -
> was a newspaper offering a book about fluxus.
> inthere i read about some "book" - studying art I selled this.
> reading it - some told about mailart.... including adresses.
>
> I sent art to this adresses - got adresses back - after this
> I shared my art and Ideas all around the globe....
>
Interesting! So you were influenced by Fluxus, in fact. What year was it?
> Mailart is a kind of MATRIX - Mathematical and Personal.
>
> Art is a kind of MATRIX too!!!!
>
> Once I saw a big painting of Vincent van Gogh.
> The original - I was overwhelmed by.
> So even mailart was/ist - the x-change of readymade
> objects? it is very good art.
>
> No computerscreen will show what one letter sends to you.
Agree.
With best wishes,
Juri
Merlin wrote:
> Mailart never started with one person, an idea arised,
> thousands of peoples practicised it and someone got
> somewhere one contact.
> Then it x-ploded while the connections hypersized around
> the whole globe.
Yes, I agree. But there were people who made big part of work (and people, who made less work, certainly), building mail art network. And one of them was Ray Johnson with his Moticos and NYCS and Buddha Ray University, etc. May be, he is more famous, then he has to be... And we forget other...
>
> My first contact - after I did Mailart with no response -
> was a newspaper offering a book about fluxus.
> inthere i read about some "book" - studying art I selled this.
> reading it - some told about mailart.... including adresses.
>
> I sent art to this adresses - got adresses back - after this
> I shared my art and Ideas all around the globe....
>
Interesting! So you were influenced by Fluxus, in fact. What year was it?
> Mailart is a kind of MATRIX - Mathematical and Personal.
>
> Art is a kind of MATRIX too!!!!
>
> Once I saw a big painting of Vincent van Gogh.
> The original - I was overwhelmed by.
> So even mailart was/ist - the x-change of readymade
> objects? it is very good art.
>
> No computerscreen will show what one letter sends to you.
Agree.
With best wishes,
Juri
Dawn Amato
Re: 10 names December 29, 2003 09:43PM |
Dawn Amato
Re: 10 names December 29, 2003 09:43PM |
Dawn Amato
Re: 10 names December 12, 2003 10:34PM |
dADa Vark
Re: 10 names December 12, 2003 11:14PM |
I am compiling my own purely subjective list, and will post it soon. Meanwhile, I sent an email to Bill Wilson who (at least in my book) is the unofficial mailart historian. Hopefully, he will respond. John Held Jr and Rudd Janssen would also be good ones to address this question.
keep on creating!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
keep on creating!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
dADa Vark
Re: Top 10 December 13, 2003 09:49PM |
My Top 10 list is purely subjective... based on the artists that had the earliest influences on me (and are still active in my network) In no particular order:
1. ex posto facto who introduced me to the eternal network
2. John Held Jr.
3. Sticker Dude
4. Rudd Janssen
5. Merlin
6. Clemente Padin
7. Dragonfly Dream
8. Ed Giecek
9. Ryosuke Cohen
And, because my #1 mailart rule is NO RULES (followed closely by NO GUILT)
#10 includes:
Bill Wilson (who deoesn't consdier himself an artist but is a VITAL link in my network), Jean Kusina, Paghat the Ratgirl, Laura Barletta, Ken Miller, Obvious Front, Rudi Rubberoid, RF Cote, Sandragons, Dobrica Kamperelic (who continued our correspondence even as my country was dropping bombs on his head), Honoria, Jose Sechi, Giovanni StraDaDa Ravenna, Fiona, Predrag Popovic, Bruno Capatti, Kate Stewart, Diane Bertrand, Ficus Strangelensis, Kenneth Karsten, kiyotei, Guido Verneulen, Carla Cryptic, Malok, State of Being, Marilyn Damman, Zena Zero, Dopesick, et al.
Rule #2.5 is SENDERS RECEIVE.
keep on naming names and sending mailart!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
1. ex posto facto who introduced me to the eternal network
2. John Held Jr.
3. Sticker Dude
4. Rudd Janssen
5. Merlin
6. Clemente Padin
7. Dragonfly Dream
8. Ed Giecek
9. Ryosuke Cohen
And, because my #1 mailart rule is NO RULES (followed closely by NO GUILT)
#10 includes:
Bill Wilson (who deoesn't consdier himself an artist but is a VITAL link in my network), Jean Kusina, Paghat the Ratgirl, Laura Barletta, Ken Miller, Obvious Front, Rudi Rubberoid, RF Cote, Sandragons, Dobrica Kamperelic (who continued our correspondence even as my country was dropping bombs on his head), Honoria, Jose Sechi, Giovanni StraDaDa Ravenna, Fiona, Predrag Popovic, Bruno Capatti, Kate Stewart, Diane Bertrand, Ficus Strangelensis, Kenneth Karsten, kiyotei, Guido Verneulen, Carla Cryptic, Malok, State of Being, Marilyn Damman, Zena Zero, Dopesick, et al.
Rule #2.5 is SENDERS RECEIVE.
keep on naming names and sending mailart!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
dADa Vark
Bill Wilson: Who is your fav child? December 13, 2003 10:18PM |
Bill Wilson replied with a poignant response:
...you don't want to hear me on how I HATE questions like that, those distortions of the fields by selecting favorites. Would one have a favorite child (of my three) or (of my four) grandchildren?
Bill makes a very good point about the pointlessness of Top 10 lists. If we are making them to inflate the stature of one artist over another (or inflate our own egos) then it is contrary to the spirit of mailart.
However, I look at it the same way I view fine artists... I don't ask myself whether Picasso was a better artist than Warhol... or even who had more influence on 20th century art. I admire each in his own right for their unique perspective and original contributions. Mostly, though, I judge them by how THEIR art moves ME!
And I submitted my top 10 list of mailartists to this board in the same spirit. I am not saying one is better or more important to mailart history than another. And I am sorry if I (inevitably) left someone off the list who SHOULD be mentioned. But, each person on the list has touched me profoundly on my journey thru the eternal network.
Now, all this TALK about mailart makes me want to go create some! Byte!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
...you don't want to hear me on how I HATE questions like that, those distortions of the fields by selecting favorites. Would one have a favorite child (of my three) or (of my four) grandchildren?
Bill makes a very good point about the pointlessness of Top 10 lists. If we are making them to inflate the stature of one artist over another (or inflate our own egos) then it is contrary to the spirit of mailart.
However, I look at it the same way I view fine artists... I don't ask myself whether Picasso was a better artist than Warhol... or even who had more influence on 20th century art. I admire each in his own right for their unique perspective and original contributions. Mostly, though, I judge them by how THEIR art moves ME!
And I submitted my top 10 list of mailartists to this board in the same spirit. I am not saying one is better or more important to mailart history than another. And I am sorry if I (inevitably) left someone off the list who SHOULD be mentioned. But, each person on the list has touched me profoundly on my journey thru the eternal network.
Now, all this TALK about mailart makes me want to go create some! Byte!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
field study
Re: Top 10 December 13, 2003 11:55PM |
dADa Vark
Re: Top 10 December 13, 2003 10:03PM |
My Top 10 list is purely subjective... based on the artists that had the earliest influences on me (and are still active in my network) In no particular order:
1. ex posto facto who introduced me to the eternal network
2. John Held Jr.
3. Sticker Dude
4. Rudd Janssen
5. Merlin
6. Clemente Padin
7. Dragonfly Dream
8. Ed Giecek
9. Ryosuke Cohen
And, because my #1 mailart rule is NO RULES (followed closely by NO GUILT)
#10 includes:
Bill Wilson (who deoesn't consdier himself an artist but is a VITAL link in my network), Jean Kusina, Paghat the Ratgirl, Laura Barletta, Ken Miller, Obvious Front, Rudi Rubberoid, RF Cote, Sandragons, Dobrica Kamperelic (who continued our correspondence even as my country was dropping bombs on his head), Honoria, Jose Sechi, Giovanni StraDaDa Ravenna, Fiona, Predrag Popovic, Bruno Capatti, Kate Stewart, Diane Bertrand, Ficus Strangelensis, Kenneth Karsten, kiyotei, Guido Verneulen, Carla Cryptic, Malok, State of Being, Marilyn Damman, Zena Zero, Dopesick, et al.
Rule #2.5 is SENDERS RECEIVE.
keep on naming names and sending mailart!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
1. ex posto facto who introduced me to the eternal network
2. John Held Jr.
3. Sticker Dude
4. Rudd Janssen
5. Merlin
6. Clemente Padin
7. Dragonfly Dream
8. Ed Giecek
9. Ryosuke Cohen
And, because my #1 mailart rule is NO RULES (followed closely by NO GUILT)
#10 includes:
Bill Wilson (who deoesn't consdier himself an artist but is a VITAL link in my network), Jean Kusina, Paghat the Ratgirl, Laura Barletta, Ken Miller, Obvious Front, Rudi Rubberoid, RF Cote, Sandragons, Dobrica Kamperelic (who continued our correspondence even as my country was dropping bombs on his head), Honoria, Jose Sechi, Giovanni StraDaDa Ravenna, Fiona, Predrag Popovic, Bruno Capatti, Kate Stewart, Diane Bertrand, Ficus Strangelensis, Kenneth Karsten, kiyotei, Guido Verneulen, Carla Cryptic, Malok, State of Being, Marilyn Damman, Zena Zero, Dopesick, et al.
Rule #2.5 is SENDERS RECEIVE.
keep on naming names and sending mailart!
dADa Vark
pob 542913
dallas, tx 75354-2913 usa
Ruud Janssen - IUOMA
Re: Top 10 December 13, 2003 11:23PM |
My Top-10?
No way I will make a list like that.
When I did the mail-Interviews I discovered that there are lots of people out there that are interesting although I didn't knew them at first. I invited 80 artists for the Interviews, and almost 70 got published. Still I wouldn't destile my top 10 out of that.
My number one, maybe the one that gets the most mail of me (about 500 pieces each year)..........
Ruud Janssen
No way I will make a list like that.
When I did the mail-Interviews I discovered that there are lots of people out there that are interesting although I didn't knew them at first. I invited 80 artists for the Interviews, and almost 70 got published. Still I wouldn't destile my top 10 out of that.
My number one, maybe the one that gets the most mail of me (about 500 pieces each year)..........
Ruud Janssen
jcsuk
Re: 10 names December 14, 2003 08:35PM |
There seems to be a fashion for top ten lists. Every time I turn on the television there is a top 10 of something.
How do you decide what is better than something else?
Are not all pieces of mail art equal to all of the other pieces?
Is the next piece of mail art you receive the most important?
Is there a question that is of quality?
What are the top 10 questions about Mail Art?
jc
How do you decide what is better than something else?
Are not all pieces of mail art equal to all of the other pieces?
Is the next piece of mail art you receive the most important?
Is there a question that is of quality?
What are the top 10 questions about Mail Art?
jc
Sztuka Fabryka
Re: 10 names December 15, 2003 07:59AM |
The persons I read are all alive. While there are Mail-artists who have died who should also be mentioned. Where is Achim Weigelt in these lists? He died very young, mid thirty, but what a talent.
And what about those Mail-artists who lived in former East-Europe who has had such an incredible influence on Mail-Art? Does anyone knows what Pawel Petasz has done while he was behind the "iron curtain", much more then some named here.
Greetings,
Sztuka Fabryka
And what about those Mail-artists who lived in former East-Europe who has had such an incredible influence on Mail-Art? Does anyone knows what Pawel Petasz has done while he was behind the "iron curtain", much more then some named here.
Greetings,
Sztuka Fabryka
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